posted 09-21-99 05:47 AM            

The following was posted at ASCAP:
ASCAP ANNOUNCES
GROUNDBREAKING MUSIC AND LICENSING DEAL
WITH MP3.COM
ASCAP, the world's largest music performing rights organization as well as the leading Internet music licensor today announced a unique strategic relationship with MP3.com.

MP3.com, as part of the relationship, will take a comprehensive ASCAP music performance license which will allow the unlimited interactive performances on the MP3.com site of over 4 million copyrighted works from ASCAP's 85,000 members.

MP3.com joins a rapidly growing list of web sites that have realized the business-building advantages of an ASCAP license. What makes this relationship unique are the elements put in place to achieve both ASCAP and MP3.com mutual objectives -- the protection of creators' rights and the development of music talent.

Also, as part of the relationship, MP3.com will provide prominent exposure of the benefits of ASCAP membership to all unaffiliated writers, composers, artist/writers and publishers using the MP3.com site, as well as help facilitate the processing of membership applications.

An interactive ASCAP "radio channel" will be created on the MP3.com web site. Programmed by ASCAP in collaboration with MP3.com listeners, it will feature the musical works of ASCAP writers and artist/writers.

ASCAP and MP3.com will nationally co-host music showcases and educational workshops both on and off line. In this way, the talent development skills of both organizations will be made available to the largest possible audience.

ASCAP will offer its many exclusive membership benefits to unaffiliated writers and publishers on the MP3.com web site.

Commenting on the announcement, John LoFrumento, ASCAP CEO, said: "Today we take a big step forward in the proper use of protected intellectual property. All ASCAP members can take pride in this groundbreaking agreement with MP3.com. And of course, I take great pride in the fact that ASCAP is the only US performing rights organization that regularly distributes money for Internet music performances."

This agreement reflects ASCAP's approach to new technology, which focuses on the maximization of members' performance payments. ASCAP's technology is more than a promise for tomorrow, but is, in fact, a reality for today.

ASCAP is the world's largest performing rights organization, with over 85,000 active composer, lyricist and music publisher members in the United States, representing music of every variety and style. ASCAP is the only U.S. performing rights organization governed by and for its members.

posted 09-21-99 08:04 AM            

Jim Signorile

posted 09-21-99 11:36 AM            

What is going to happen is that ASCAP is going to charge mp3.com a fee, which in turn they are going to charge artists a fee for your music to be on the site. They won’t have another choice. Result - The site won’t be free anymore.

ASCAP is going to say they are going to pay you songwriter’s performance royalties back to you for your own music. Sounds really cool doesn’t it!

A MINISCULE number of you artists will be winners, but almost all of you will be losers. Here’s why. Someone is going to have to do the administration with salary and overhead including the benefit package from mp3.com. Someone is going to have to do the administration with salary and overhead including the benefit package from ASCAP.

Actuaries, Accountants, Statisticians, how many employees do you think will be required on both ends mp3.com and ASCAP for the thousands of artists represented here on mp3.com – or can we figure this out by common sense? Make sure that you include the price tag of that beautiful high priced new building that everyone will have to be housed in and the overhead rate of all those high priced salaries, because they need to be highly experienced and trained, professionals.

As you all should know by now, the formulae ASCAP uses for calculating performance royalties are impossible to figure out from their own material. What they may do is some statistical method with 40 or so of you, because that is a good number that the books say that they can generalize on and apply to the whole population of you artists – right statisticians?

Of course, if you want them to do it for ALL the artists (because you will scream loud enough), the price tag went up even more. Now they are going to hire more people on both ends and pay them high salaries (after all, they need skilled employees with masters degrees or higher and now we need managers to watch over the other employees) and that benefit package associated to do the job!

So how much money out of that pool do you think will be left to distribute?

Add to that the never materialized (yet anyway) amp3 proposal for the $1.00 download. The powers that be now know that you were all smart enough to come up with a tactic or two that they didn’t even think of. You all were smart enough to publicly broadcast such things as setting up downloading clubs to sit in front of their computers and download your material all day long. They now know that they have to put locks in place that will allow the one download per computer and utilize this to minimize the royalty that would go to you if it was based on downloads.

You’ve already seen the Rod Underhill tactics of getting to be on the Featured List (see all the HardParty threads before they get deleted). Rod’s downloads are always going to be more than yours. When he gets downloaded MORE times than you, there went ALL your royalty money that you are paying to put your material on mp3.com whether they buy a DAM CD of his or not – remember it is a public performance royalty!

So the good and kind Rod Underhill who knows this is coming, sincerely apologized.

How many of you bought his apology – even begged everyone else to stop hammering him?

The idiot element will lock up into the hope that it will be different, but the financial bottom line will dictate exactly what will happen!

posted 09-21-99 11:51 AM         

The ASCAP license will be for mp3radio.com, which is a project with Cox.

posted 09-21-99 01:37 PM            

i analyze a database with over 50,000 unique cases.. the statistical software used (spss) requires only an incremental amount of more work to compensate for larger databases.. not more employees with outrageous benefit packages..

don't know why i answered that portion.. well, that's what i do for a living..

posted 09-21-99 01:54 PM         

The ranting about ASCAP's sampling methods comes from dissatisfaction about ASCAP's method of surveying radio broadcasts. They say they can't possibly log every single radio play on every station, so they survey a limited number and extrapolate. This means that some artists won't get credited at all if their radio plays don't fall in the survey. That's the Bobby Farrell et al gripe with ASCAP, I think.

posted 09-22-99 09:29 AM            

I have just come to MP3.COM to be the liason between the performing rights organizations that we are doing deals with. Firstly it's ASCAP. My backround is in publishing and management (therefore every aspect of the business including some T.V.).

Let us dispell any misunderstandings that we can. You all have points!

MP3.COM has purchased a broadcast licensing deal with ASCAP, we are working on doing the same with other performing rights organizations. This essentially means that we are treated somewhat like a radio station. What's better about this deal than the radio is that we are much better at reporting accurate numbers of plays, downloads and streams. We give our numbers directly to ASCAP and they pay a percentage to the rightful owners who are members. The percentage is yet to be determined as, there is no baseline for this type of deal. So right now, everyone needs to be patient. We at MP3.COM are working to make this a fair deal for everyone. Our practices of free downloads will not change.

Everyone in this business of merging music and the internet is dealing with how, what, who, where; and we @ MP3.COM know WHY; to give the power back to the artists/songwriters. Not everyone has that goal, but that is why it is important that you have your agenda straight and be proactive, being mad won't help.

To: Another P.K. - are you an artist and/or songwriter? Are you registered with a performing rights organization? By-the-way, We do not delete posts here, we will delete hacks that give us pornographic images, but we believe in letting everyone go and run their fingers. Communication is key!

There are a lot of positives about this ASCAP deal, lets focus on these and give MP3.COM, Congress and the PRO's (Performing Rights Orgainizations) some time to figure out how it's all going to work. We need get everyone to start thinking differently. That is exactly what I said at a panel and CMJ last weekend: Clearly we ALL need to think differently and leave our egos behind and the crowd cheered. Having a victim attitiude will not serve you.

GOING FORWARD:
There is a Lilith Fair songwriting contest that ASCAP is sponsoring, you must submit your songs before November 15th to ASCAP. Being a member of ASCAP and MP3.COM is required.

We are working diligently to get the ASCAP page up on our site. But in the meanwhile you can go to ASCAP.COM and check other benefits.

To PlatosForms: Tell me your story.

So let's talk about all of this, I'll be your guide in this area, it can be tricky, but I believe if technology broke something, technology can fix it! The music business thinks technology broke it, we'll see if that's true?

posted 09-22-99 09:36 AM            

Anyone know how to take care of this faster. I would really like to get my songs registered. Thanks in advance.

posted 09-22-99 01:01 PM            

Did you know that you can give a list to ASCAP of all the songs that you played live and they include these as plays on your next quarterly statement?

Big Business can stink up things I agree, but ASCAP is supposed to be here to protect the artist/songwriter. So what's your beef with that?

And let me say for the record that I do not represent ASCAP, BMI, SESAC or any p.r.o., I am working with the p.r.o.'s to get artists what they deserve for their streams and downloads, I am employed by MP3.COM to cause good business between us, them and you!

Statisical sampling is not necessary, as we give the numbers from here and they are pure and real. That is one of the reasons why the labels are losing their minds, cause they cannot lie so easily anymore.

The DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) says that streams and downloads are considered a performance and mechanical. Personally, I believe that the law should read that streams are performance and downloads are mechanicals.

So there is another argument here.

party on....

posted 09-22-99 09:00 PM            

mp3.com is plugging the idea that every artist should have a DAM cd. From Michael Robertson's mouth, we heard that you do better chartwise just by creating a CD. It doesn't even have to sell. This should not be policy; it's intrusive and puts the artist in a dilemma. Of course they'd love every artist to create a cd because it makes mp3.com look good. So what do you do? Do you slide down the charts without a cd or create a cd just to maintain your position? If you're sliding, I'd bet a few purchases of your own DAM cd would rescue you. Either that or massive promotion. Where promotion is expensive, 10 or so cds is less of an investment.

My vision of the dialogue between ASCAP and mp3.com.

MP: I'll get you at least 10,000 new acts under ASCAP.

ASC:I'm interested, how can you guarantee this. More importantly, what's the trade-off.

MP: We're moving into netradio. We want a license to broadcast any artist from the ASCAP lineup.

ASC: If you are confident that ASCAP will see 10,000 new members, I'm confident we can get you a special deal on that license.

.............................................

The focus at mp3.com shifts from the 25,000 artist theme into the major internet radio theme. You'll still see the same mp3.com artists here, they'll just be alienated.

.............................................

Sometime later:
mp3.com is enjoying huge success as a ASCAP licensed broadcaster.

Then the announcement:
========Mp3.com makes it easy for artists to sign up with ASCAP.========================

The artists have listened to the big station long enough and want their song played alongside the top stars in the music industry.

=======The exposure is on the big station, nearly all of it. If you're not up there, you'll continue to be alienated. =======Sign a deal with ASCAP and we'll take care of you, says mp3.com=======

MP to artist: We would really love to play our artists here, it's just that we have an agreement with ASCAP. If you don't have an agreement, we can't play you.

==============However, any artist can become a member of ASCAP. If you were a member of ASCAP, we could play you too!====================================

posted 09-22-99 09:21 PM            

quote:

---

The DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) says that streams and downloads are considered a performance and mechanical. Personally, I believe that the law should read that streams are performance and downloads are mechanicals.

---

Why shouldn't we get performance and mechanicals on downloads? Is there anything else that pays mechanicals without also paying performance?

Dave

posted 09-22-99 09:57 PM            

2. Since a US govt copyright registration is required (enforced or not), does that cost me money?

posted 09-22-99 10:32 PM            

Record sales pay mechanicals and not performance. Actually, I can't think of anything that pays both mechanicals and performance royalties.

posted 09-22-99 10:38 PM            

Please answer this one question: Does this deal mean that I will get paid royalties for downloads, plays, instant plays, and artist radio plays from my MP3.COM website? Will these plays be accurately reported to and tracked by ASCAP even though my songs do not show up in their survey of major radio stations?

www.mp3.com/loudspeaker

posted 09-23-99 06:08 AM         

$10/year for writer members.

"2. Since a US govt copyright registration is required (enforced or not), does that cost me money?"

Your work is copyrighted as soon as you set it down in tangible form. Registration costs money, but is not required.

"I hope you're not going to tell my I'm going to have to SEND IN money. I could do that with one of those song-poem ads in the national enquirer."

Usually with ASCAP you don't send in money--they deduct your dues from whatever royalties you make. If you don't make $10, they send you a bill.

"We're moving into netradio. We want a license to broadcast any artist from the ASCAP lineup."

According to the announcements, they already have a license for Internet broadcast of any ASCAP artist.

"If you are confident that ASCAP will see 10,000 new members, I'm confident we can get you a special deal on that license."

Try the rate calculator at ASCAP's site and see what the maximum fee is for an internet license. It's a lot, but not enough that mp3.com would need to cut some kind of deal on the rate.

mp3.com and ASCAP are clearly working together more closely than just working out a license. But I think the main subtext is credibility: mp3.com wants to be seen as more legitimate by the music industry, ASCAP wants to be seen as the internet leader among PROs.

"MP to artist: We would really love to play our artists here, it's just that we have an agreement with ASCAP. If you don't have an agreement, we can't play you."

This scenario seems unlikely, if not illegal. But they don't need to exclude non-ASCAP artists to encourage ASCAP membership. For anyone with a real-world writing career, PRO membership is a must anyway. It's not a question of whether, but which. If mp3.com is ASCAP-licensed, you go with ASCAP because you get paid for downloads from your mp3.com page in addition to all the other royalties.

posted 09-23-99 07:32 AM         

just got off the phone with general bobby farrell - FIREDRAGON MUSIC (ASCAP) and he confirms that you are a damned liar right out of the gate

quote:

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I have just come to MP3.COM to be the liason between the performing rights organizations that we are doing deals with. Firstly it's ASCAP.

---

just to insure the connection

quote:

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Let us dispell any misunderstandings that we can. You all have points!

---

just to set the stage

quote:

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MP3.COM has purchased a broadcast licensing deal with ASCAP, we are working on doing the same with other performing rights organizations. This essentially means that we are treated somewhat like a radio station. What's better about this deal than the radio is that we are much better at reporting accurate numbers of plays, downloads and streams. We give our numbers directly to ASCAP and they pay a percentage to the rightful owners who are members. ...

---

and that is a damned lie

ascap pays their clique via their own monitoring cum surveys and nobody else - ill be happy to document

quote:

---

... The percentage is yet to be determined as, there is no baseline for this type of deal. So right now, everyone needs to be patient. We at MP3.COM are working to make this a fair deal for everyone. Our practices of free downloads will not change.

---

patience with knowing thieves - that is just so much mealyamouthing and you damned well know it - nobody is patient with a thief nor should they be

fair deal at ascap is as nonexistent as credibility at mp3.com - and your smoozing wont change it

quote:

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Everyone in this business of merging music and the internet is dealing with how, what, who, where; and we @ MP3.COM know WHY; to give the power back to the artists/songwriters. Not everyone has that goal, but that is why it is important that you have your agenda straight and be proactive, being mad won't help.

---

anyone idiotic enough to buy that line of bull - power back to the artists/songwriters - is absolutely brain dead - you cannot now and will not ever show any change whatsoever in ascaps bmis or sesacs lying thieveries from their mass members in favor of their respective cliques and their own golden parachutes - the only thing artists/songwriters are going to get is shafted just like always

quote:

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To: Another P.K. - are you an artist and/or songwriter? Are you registered with a performing rights organization? By-the-way, We do not delete posts here, we will delete hacks that give us pornographic images, but we believe in letting everyone go and run their fingers. Communication is key!

---

do not delete posts here - now THAT is a god damned lie of the first magnitude - my own prior to the 20th last for starters - I have copies of all and none contain either pornographic words or images - so youre a damned liar right out of the gate on that one

the only time anyone can run their fingers is when they defame general farrell vmg or any of their supporters - try telling the truth about any of the liars at mp3.com and see how long your posts last

quote:

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There are a lot of positives about this ASCAP deal, lets focus on these and give MP3.COM, Congress and the PRO's (Performing Rights Orgainizations) some time to figure out how it's all going to work. ....

---

they already know how its going to work - or didnt you know about ascaps marilyn bergman buying the senate judiciary committee via senator hatch - so that too is a knowing damned lie

quote:

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....We need get everyone to start thinking differently. That is exactly what I said at a panel and CMJ last weekend: Clearly we ALL need to think differently and leave our egos behind and the crowd cheered. Having a victim attitiude will not serve you.

---

you need everyone thinking differently to suck them into being scammed without protest in their ignorance - egos be damned a liar is a liar and a thief is a thief and ascap and mp3.com qualify in both categories - and being a victim with an attitude will bring out the TRUTH neither ascap bmi sesac nor mp3.com can stand

quote:

---

GOING FORWARD: There is a Lilith Fair songwriting contest that ASCAP is sponsoring, you must submit your songs before November 15th to ASCAP. Being a member of ASCAP and MP3.COM is required.

---

just dont hold your breath unless youre in the ascap clique

quote:

---

We are working diligently to get the ASCAP page up on our site. But in the meanwhile you can go to ASCAP.COM and check other benefits.

---

the only other benefits at ascap are more lies to scam those ignorant enough to believe anything written there excluding addresses and telephone numbers

quote:

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To PlatosForms: Tell me your story.

---

oh please do - so ascap can use every word of it against you should you ever decide to call them on their nonpayment of your royalties - ill be happy to document one more time

quote:

---

So let's talk about all of this, I'll be your guide in this area, it can be tricky, but I believe if technology broke something, technology can fix it! The music business thinks technology broke it, we'll see if that's true?

---

not until you get rid of the damned liars like yourself you wont

at multimedia we get hundreds of requests to verify public performances for songwriters from all three agencies - ascap - bmi - sesac - and all foreign agencies - but by those own agencys rules only their own surveys - which are all but nonexistent - are acceptable in determining their royalty disbursements

and all other versions are outright god damned lies

in closing - general bobby farrell is not the only source of such accusations or documentation that will stand up in any court - im waiting to testify should any of those agencies be so stupid as to sue as i can document radio airplay for everyone in the industry over the past thirty years - general farrell and vmg included

posted 09-23-99 09:30 AM         

"at multimedia we get hundreds of requests to verify public performances for songwriters from all three agencies - ascap - bmi - sesac - and all foreign agencies - but by those own agencys rules only their own surveys - which are all but nonexistent - are acceptable in determining their royalty disbursements"

Can't speak for SESAC and BMI, but I report my own performances to ASCAP and get paid for them, and I'm not part of any "clique." As I understand it, the survey applies only to radio play. And from what was said above, it won't apply to mp3.com's Internet license, since they will report the actual statistics.

(IIRC, ASCAP does offer Internet licenses based on sampling methods for sites who can't/won't provide detailed information on plays. Anyone who's interested can check their site.)

posted 09-23-99 09:40 AM            

The Life And Times Of Tiffany Barsotti (personal manager, agent, and
publisher at Rondor Music International, Director of high profile relationships Mp3.com)-

Tiffany has a degree in Recording Arts and Sciences from UCLA which included
courses in music publishing, marketing, production, sound engineering,
retail radio and publicity.

Tiffany worked as an assistant to Sandi Gallin at Gallin-Morey Associates,
the largest Management Company in Los Angeles at that time.

Tiffany also worked at Jensen Communications doing tour press for popular
groups like Jane's Addiction, Depeche Mode, the Doobie Brothers, Rod
Stewart, Billy Joel, and many others.

In 1989, after her departure from Jensen Communications, Tiffany received an
unexpected call from Dianne Reeves with an offer of road management and tour
publicity work. A successful meeting with Dianne's manager, Linda
Goldstein, whose other clients included Bobby McFerrin, and Laurie Anderson,
resulted in a further offer for Tiffany to move from her native Los Angeles
to New York to work out of Goldstein's office prior to heading out on the
road with Reeves. It was during this tour that Reeves' album, "Never Too
Far," hit the #3 spot on the Billboard R&B charts.

She eventually joined forces with Steven Rechtschaffner; and together they
created the company, Industrial Strength Productions (ISP). A series called
Inside Out, a sort of erotic Twilight Zone for which Tiffany and Steven were
producers, caught the attention of Propaganda Films, which in turn offered
the duo their first major contract: The opportunity to produce
state-of-the-art workout videos for Reebok. ISP took off with the Reebok
productions, and during its lifetime went on to do everything from Sports
marketing for brands such as Rollerblade, Airwalk, and Burton Snowboards, to
proposing shows to MTV, the blueprints of which eventually developed into
mainstays for the cable channel to this day.
Industrial Strength Productions had finished all of its work by 1993. Soon
thereafter Dianne Reeves called Tiffany once again, this time to ask her to
be her manager. As this was the moment Tiffany had been awaiting, she
promptly created her own new company, Sound Management, and contiguously
began working with Dianne to develop a new album, "Art and Survival."
Released in February 1994, the album received a host of critical and popular
acclaim, winning many awards in both the jazz and R&B genres. This album was
followed by "Quiet After the Storm," produced by Dianne's mentor and cousin,
George Duke. This well organized project garnered her a Grammy nomination,
high volume in sales, visibility, a strong foundation for International
publicity, and touring opportunities.
In 1997 a new direction was on the horizon for Sound Management and
Tiffany. With the signing of Maysa Leak(of the group Incognito), and the
signing of the up-and-coming blues-based rock group Swamp Boogie Queen,
Tiffany entered the arena of mainstream and popular music, in which she has
made great strides. Since November of 1998, she has worked for Rondor Music
International, as the Creative Director in the New York office under the
administration of Karen Durant, whom she met in 1993, when Karen was the A &
R representative for Reeves' "Art and Survival" release.

And last but not least Tiffany is one heck of a great person!

posted 09-23-99 10:05 AM         

For a glimse of the future of MP3c go here:
http://www.listen.com/ .

posted 09-23-99 06:38 PM            

quote:

---

To: Another P.K. - are you an artist and/or songwriter? Are you registered with a performing rights organization? By-the-way, We do not delete posts here, we will delete hacks that give us pornographic images, but we believe in letting everyone go and run their fingers. Communication is key!

---

Tiffany – you are a damned liar and you can prove it to yourself by running your own searches. Report your findings AND HOW YOU GOT THERE on the bb! Make sure that you do it the way that we have to. Test on Vandor Music Group or (VMG), JerkStomper, and RadioWizard! Or has mp3.com changed the rules since you are being called on your damned lies! Have the administration explain to you the 60,000 plus posts that disappeared in August!

Second point of proving you a damned liar. If communication is the key, why can’t some people post at all? Why has even chevdo at times not been allowed to post? You know damned well there are others!

Third point of proving you a damned liar, Why are several threads locked? If communication is the key as you say, then you know that locking those threads stopped the information from getting to the top of the bb and forced to go into oblivion!

Furthermore, you know damned well the remainder of the unlocked threads were buried in spam posts. None of that bullshit of the hours available for moderation, or lack thereof, by Michelle (or whoever) either. Some threads regarding the uncovered Nashville Tracker phony-chart/phony-award scam were locked sometime during the middle of your night in California.

posted 09-23-99 07:16 PM         

Not everyone who agrees with him, just everyone who walks like him, talks like him, rants like him--maybe they're identical cousins!

posted 09-23-99 09:07 PM            

Now, Radiowizard, etc. If you are so unhappy here, why do you keep coming back, at mulitple times in mulitple ways?

posted 09-23-99 10:06 PM         

why am i here - because the industry pays me very well to keep track of the scams

of which mp3.com - because of the likes of you and your ilk - is becoming one of the more prevalent

any word on those nonexistent deletions yet

theyre still gone

perhaps theyre in review by major labels waiting to sign somebody from mp3.com who belongs to the ascap pay clique

or maybe they sent them to gary bradshaw or nashville tracker - theyd certainly make an interesting chart - whos deleted and whos not and how many

#1 chevdo
#2 spv666
#3 radiowizard
#4 general farrell
#5 heartbroken

damn - what a line up

posted 09-24-99 01:03 PM         

have tiffany return those posts mp3.com does not delete and your questions are answered

posted 09-24-99 01:07 PM            

Tiffany is new and she just started posting to the BB.

Posts may be deleted or locked/edited in special cases.

Tiffany is no liar. She's here to help with the ASCAP situation.

posted 09-24-99 04:07 PM            

Really? Who in "the industry" is paying you?

> is ascap listening

Doubtful. I haven't heard you say anything that's worth listening to.

posted 09-25-99 09:53 AM         

tiffany is a damned liar - duly documented - just like everybody else who works for ascap has proven to be

loudspeaker

a partial list of cliente was in the posts mp3.com does not delete

but you can include afm abc cbs nbc fox telefunken wea bmg sony umg emi efa wdc vmg borders ingrams and several dozen other agencies - manufacture promotion and distribution are all links in the same chain

fyi - the biggest concern from all the above is counterfeiting - next is available broadcast time - followed by available shelf space

interesting list dont you think

buttpimple

read fbis post - Attention Staff! Concerned Artists Speak! - your answer is there in all its glory